The not-so-perfect Utopia: A Hypothesis.

Home Forums Off Topic The not-so-perfect Utopia: A Hypothesis.

This topic contains 2 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by Shinra Kuroki Shinra Kuroki 1 year, 2 months ago.

Viewing 3 posts - 1 through 3 (of 3 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #7188
    V-Tundra
    V-Tundra
    Participant

    College is on the horizon, but high school must end first. My last classes include philosophy and social studies, and both my professors teamed up to bring us a fictional scenario and have us think on various questions. I’d like to share the scenario of what my professors call the Not-So-Perfect Utopia. The scenario goes like this:

    ——————————————————————————————————

    Imagine that the US has become a land of equality and freedom for all. Racism, homophobia and discrimination are things of the past. The church and religion holds no grasp on the government and all, science and technology are on the forefront. Crime has lowered infinitely, murder and rape are extremely rare to happen. The US has become a land of peace; but there’s a catch. The United States has become a fascist state which has imposed different rules.

    -The government has instituted the death penalty for ALL charges of murder and rape, without exception and without trial.
    -People who commit acts of racism, sexism, homophobia, heterophobia and different types of hate (including protests) are locked up in jail/isolated from society.
    -All forms of religion have been banned since they have been declared “unscientific” and “they pose a danger to scientific advancement” of the country. Citizens of the US are forbidden to hold any faiths there may exist.
    -All living on the US are carefully watched at all times, to fully avoid people committing what’s labeled as crimes. Sort of like Big-Brother.

    The idea is that the government is solidly planted on the idea that the action of people holding certain beliefs gives power to those beliefs, and by killing/isolating/hiding people who hold beliefs that are negative or could present rifts in the american population will solve the problems.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————-

    The point of the NSPU is to detect the flaws that such a “paradise” would bring. The two most obvious are the trampling of freedom of speech and freedom of choice. There’s also the entire “Big Brother” thing going on, but the main question is: If such acts can bring onto a better and more peaceful society, would it be worth it to allow them? Is it a binner evil for a greater good or a greater evil for a binner good? What’s your opinion?

    "The universe is one big joke, and the joke is on us"

    #7189
    KahunaDrake
    KahunaDrake
    Participant

    Congratulations on finishing high school, Tundra. May you find a good college for your pursuits in higher education.

    In regards to your question, it reminds me of a Soviet-style society so I wouldn’t go for it. Even if it was for the greater good, the anti-individualist stance of the government in question turns me off completely.

    On the individual points:

    1. Death penalty w/o trial: Violates an American right, regardless of what you think about the death penalty and the crimes themselves.

    2. Who is to say what is a hate crime? Especially these days when people are offended by the most trivial things. The gov’t could also as an excuse it to limit individual expression.

    3. Religion can be a hard thing to talk about because of the controversial debate of it’s relevance in modern America. There is freedom of religion and separation of church and state here. People have the right to believe what they want, regardless of scientific fact. I am sure there are scientists that practice different faiths so that could be a problem if those individuals are useful to the advancement of society.

    4. Big Brother is a nightmare within itself. Imagine if you were monitored constantly in your daily life. The government could watch you eating, shitting, bathing, having sex and what not. You would have to censor your speech as well, even when talking to family and friends. You wouldn’t be able to be yourself lest you slip and pay the consequences.

    This society is just plain un-American lol but it highlights the importance of the individual vs. the group. America is not a perfect country by any means but compared to other parts of the world, I’m quite happy I live here. On a side note, I did have an old neighbor who was from former Yugoslavia (now Croatia). The government dictated every aspect of citizen’s lives. Her father could not get work if he didn’t join the Communist political party and they could not celebrate the religious holidays that brought them joy. She loves her culture and family that still live there but she appreciates the privilege and freedom of being an American citizen.

    “Better” is a subjective term anyway. Who would sacrifice their freedom for the “greater good”? Not I.

    “Nirvana is not for this world.”

    Rabid ecstasy, 1997

    #7223
    Shinra Kuroki
    Shinra Kuroki
    Participant

    1. “The government has instituted the death penalty for ALL charges of murder and rape, without exception and without trial.”

    I’ll believe in guilty until proven innocent after you prove to me you haven’t sold nuclear secrets to the Russians!

    2. “People who commit acts of racism, sexism, homophobia, heterophobia and different types of hate (including protests) are locked up in jail/isolated from society.”

    See Twitter for how those speech laws (which are made to govern thought) are going. BLM is at large calling for dead cops while Milo is banned for making fun of Leslie “The power of pain compels you” Jones. ISIS uses Twitter & they’re not cracked down on. When thought is made illegal, it’s only a matter of time till the government starts redefining what bigotry is, making some of it ok, as long as they agree with it. I also strongly believe in the power of stupidity. I think no one has generated more supporters of gay marriage then the Westboro Baptist Church. Free people know evil when they see it. Bigots can easily be defeated in the court of public opinion & if we become too stupid to stand for those rights, to rebuff bigots in their entirety; then nothing will save us from the wages of our own stupidity.

    “All forms of religion have been banned since they have been declared “unscientific” and “they pose a danger to scientific advancement” of the country. Citizens of the US are forbidden to hold any faiths there may exist.”

    The fact so many religious people are scientists really show what a non sequitur this is. Anti-theists are exactly like Anita Sarkisian in this matter; believe what I believe in & everything will be fine. My ideology, which demands the all others to be co-opted or destroyed, will be the panacea for all your problems. The problem with a religion wipe like this is that you haven’t wiped out all religion, you have just created the most oppressive religion/ideology on the face of the planet. Many dictators (and wanna-be dictators like Anita) try to remove any ideology that they can’t co-opt. Religion is hard to co-opt cause it has principals. You can say movements like Humanism have “principals”, but they fall apart cause they’re rooted mostly in ad populum. Science can never determine ethics & morality, because that is not what science is. Nothing annoys me more then atheists who fundamentally don’t understand science. Science is a way to understand the natural world, a process that is limited to just objective reality. It says nothing about metaphysics, no matter how much an atheist wishes to believe their faith that God doesn’t exist is a scientifically backed position. With science being by definition not a viable substitute, what will humanists base their principals on, without religion to steal it from?

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cnz2UuDW8AAX0Ko.jpg:large

    And atheists wonder why atheism+ and humanism+ became a thing. If you can make it popular, the core of atheism will fall for it hook, line, & sinker. With a religion wipe, the little bit of yellow paint atheists borrow from religion will dry up. With no more ethics & morality, this “utopia” will act in what ever way it pleases. There’s a reason why most philosophers say that “Without God, anything is permissible”. The greatest philosophers all knew what the “Death of God” would be like. We enshrine our rights as God given, what suitable substitutes could you hope to replace God with??? Science, which is completely not up to the task? Culture, the same thing that made the Kardashian family famous for no reason? Reason, which is an atheist weasel word for science?

    Anti-theists thinks culture will be improved by wiping religion off the face of the planet. Nothing is farther from the truth.
    Like most self serving logic, anti-theists over play the negatives and down-play/ignore the positives of religion. Like seriously, if you have to dig up ancient history like the Crusades to bash Christianity, you should really rethink your priorities. Also, if you have to conflate all of religion with Islam, that says a lot about you. There is nothing “unscientific” about religion, other than it falls outside of the scope of science. Most religious people leave the objective world to science and the metaphysical world to religion. Being religious doesn’t stop from being an idiot with opinions that are contradicted by scientific fact, but it is an error to think this stupidity stems from religion. It parallels “video games made kids violent” pretty perfectly.

    4. “All living on the US are carefully watched at all times, to fully avoid people committing what’s labeled as crimes. Sort of like Big-Brother.”

    See 1984

    "Now, I’ve forgiven the world and myself, too. I teach myself to smile again. One day I’ll get there, I know I will. Even if it takes me not nine, but nine hundred lives." -Susan Ashworth from The Cat Lady

Viewing 3 posts - 1 through 3 (of 3 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.